Sunday, February 14, 2010
Tuesday, February 9, 2010
Valentines Day
My favorite thing about Valentines day is getting to buy those great Frisches kids meal coupons. I bought 24. That means I can take 24 kids out to eat, for free. Not all at once though. Even I can't handle that. My van isn't big enough. I also bought 96 bags of those little valentine candy hearts to give out in kids church. Other than those two things, I could care less.
You see, I'm single. If you ask me if I'm married, engaged or dating anyone I will say no. Most of my friends are married and most of them have kids. I want to be married and I want to have kids. The thing is though, I'm not all that worried about it. I rarely think about the fact that I'm single. My mind is occupied by too many other things, important things like ministry, spending time with friends and family, and of course finding ways to make more money. Sometimes I wonder if perhaps I should be more aggressive in my pursuit of the opposite sex. I have friends who are constantly looking for and constantly getting dates. To me that just sound expensive and time consuming. I'm not opposed to dating but I'm also not particularly interested in dating a different girl every month. That just sound stressful. Yea, I guess it could be fun but I have fun all the times. I don't need a date to do that. There's a fine line here. On the one hand, yes I guess I do need to be more aggressive and meet more single ladies. On the other hand I can't make that my number one priority. Will I ever be married, perhaps. Only time will tell. Until then though, happy valentines day to all of you in the blogger world.
Saturday, February 6, 2010
There Was But now There Isn't
Every once in a while I will see someone that I haven't seen in years. Sometimes it's on facebook other times its at the grocery store or at some other random location. Today, however, it was in the news. If I had to guess I would say that it's probably been 12 years since I've seen Nicole. I probably wouldn't have recognized her if I saw her walking down the street. When we were all young, her and her brothers were in the same youth group as me. It's weird because in my mind she is still 13. People don't age unless you see them get older, right? But now, now she's dead. She died on I-74 in a traffic accident yesterday. It's always weird to realize that you will never see someone again. Sure, it's been 12 years but I ran into her brother just last year. There was always that chance. There was but now there isn't. This makes me sad, 27 us too young.
Friday, January 29, 2010
Big Gears, Tiny Gears
I'm fairly positive that our conversation started before I was consciously a part of it. But sure enough, he was talking to me. "A five dollar check" he said. "Only five dollars." Wait, what are we talking about, I thought to myself. He was a middle aged black man, overweight and balding. The hair that he had left looked like it hadn't seen a shower in quite a few days. He was sitting on an exercise bike in the furniture department of St. Vincent DePauls and he was apparently talking to me. "I cashed that five dollar check and the people at the bank laughed at me. They took two dollars for cashing it so that only left me with three. I had a seven dollar, no wait, eight dollar check last week. They called me and told me that they needed me at work but they told me to go home after 30 minutes. The guy wrote me that check right then, five dollars."
Since we were apparently having a conversation I politely agreed. Five dollars is a rather small check but money is money so you have to cash it. Our conversation continued from there, like a mountain trail full of sudden twist and turns. Wait, what were we talking about again? Gears, we are talking about gears now. "I used to make gears at a factory in Chicago. They were big gears, heavy, some this tall." he motioned with his hands. "Some as big as this room. But at my new job I'm going to be making tiny gears, only this big. So small, like a quarter." he laughed, "so small, little tiny gears. It will be so easy"
"I'm getting fat but I eat healthy. Every other night I eat a can of vegetables and a baloney sandwich. Every other night I skip dinner and just drink beer." Huh, that doesn't sound too healthy I thought to myself. "A friend once told me that America makes you fat. Maybe that's your problem." I quipped.
"Someday I'm going to find that special girl to marry. The Bible says it ain't right just to be sleeping with people. That's what people do now a days you know? They go on a date and then they sleep together. That ain't right." I nodded in agreement, "Nope, that isn't right." I guess we are talking about marriage now.
And the conversation went on, never knowing what surprises lie in the next sentance. Ah ha, my chance. He had cornered another stranger and was asking their advice on the exercise bike that he had been sitting on for the last 20 minutes. He was getting fat and since his diet was healthy he figured it must be his lack of exercise."Hey, what if I don't want to use my arms on this bike can I disengage thees things..." The stranger didn't know, and I had walked away, I had shopping to do.
Since we were apparently having a conversation I politely agreed. Five dollars is a rather small check but money is money so you have to cash it. Our conversation continued from there, like a mountain trail full of sudden twist and turns. Wait, what were we talking about again? Gears, we are talking about gears now. "I used to make gears at a factory in Chicago. They were big gears, heavy, some this tall." he motioned with his hands. "Some as big as this room. But at my new job I'm going to be making tiny gears, only this big. So small, like a quarter." he laughed, "so small, little tiny gears. It will be so easy"
"I'm getting fat but I eat healthy. Every other night I eat a can of vegetables and a baloney sandwich. Every other night I skip dinner and just drink beer." Huh, that doesn't sound too healthy I thought to myself. "A friend once told me that America makes you fat. Maybe that's your problem." I quipped.
"Someday I'm going to find that special girl to marry. The Bible says it ain't right just to be sleeping with people. That's what people do now a days you know? They go on a date and then they sleep together. That ain't right." I nodded in agreement, "Nope, that isn't right." I guess we are talking about marriage now.
And the conversation went on, never knowing what surprises lie in the next sentance. Ah ha, my chance. He had cornered another stranger and was asking their advice on the exercise bike that he had been sitting on for the last 20 minutes. He was getting fat and since his diet was healthy he figured it must be his lack of exercise."Hey, what if I don't want to use my arms on this bike can I disengage thees things..." The stranger didn't know, and I had walked away, I had shopping to do.
Wednesday, January 27, 2010
God Bless America?
Every time I hear a story about Haiti my eyes tear up. I feel for them and I'm sad that any human would have to suffer like they are and like they have for so long. When I hear stories of American generosity I tear up. It makes me proud to know that our country is full of so many generous and caring people. It reminds me that being rich gives Americans the opportunity to help the rest of the world. But then it happens. I run into people that make me rue the day I became a Westsider. Facebook is good for that. I guess I was naive to think that everyone was for helping the helpless. I never though that I would read a statement like this one from a gentleman from Westwood:
"Haiti is the toilet of the earth. Mother nature was just trying to flush." or how about this one from a young man from Price Hill "help america first f**k everyone else!"
There was even a young lady from Western Hills who chimed in with "Yeah its sad that happened to them but its every man for himself or in this case country... Noone helped us on 9/11 or hurricane katrina we did it all ourselves..."
When I informed her that over 100 countries offered aid when Katrina hit she told me that she didn't care about statistics. Yea, statistics, who need them? People,who cares about people? The rest of the world can burn. God bless America?
"Haiti is the toilet of the earth. Mother nature was just trying to flush." or how about this one from a young man from Price Hill "help america first f**k everyone else!"
There was even a young lady from Western Hills who chimed in with "Yeah its sad that happened to them but its every man for himself or in this case country... Noone helped us on 9/11 or hurricane katrina we did it all ourselves..."
When I informed her that over 100 countries offered aid when Katrina hit she told me that she didn't care about statistics. Yea, statistics, who need them? People,who cares about people? The rest of the world can burn. God bless America?
Friday, January 15, 2010
7 Randoms
My Dad
My dad stopped by my work the other day just to show me this comic. He cut it out of the paper for me.
My eBay Account
My eBay account was partially suspended by eBay today. Dupont filed a claim agansit me because I illegally used the word freon in my auction. They aparently own the word freon. I did not know this and I bet you didn't either. eBays customer service is quite possibly the worst in the world.
My Emotions
Every time I hear about the people of Haiti on the news I tear up. I'm usually driving so I try not to cry. It's hard not to cry. They are people just like me.
My Country
Every time I hear about all that my country is doing to try to help Haiti I am proud. I think that we get a bad rap when it comes to world politics. Americans as a people and as a government do a lot and give a lot to help other nations.
My Snowman
I built this guy a couple of years ago in my parents front yard.
My Antique Photos
I think this girl is beautiful. Too bad she is dead.
My Hair
I pulled a car with my hair years ago. Yea, I really did.
Wednesday, January 13, 2010
Got to Have Goals
So here they are, my list of goals. I made a list of around 75 life goals last year and completed 15. Not too shabby if you ask me. This year I did a list of 50 (as did all of the guys in my life group) and plan to accomplish at least 25. Ryan, our fearless leader did on too and you can read that one here
1. Make $8,000 in online sales
2. Put railing in my hallway
3. Have a giant party
4. give away $1,000 at one time
5. Be less socially awkward
6. Go on a date
7. Get 12 new people to come to church
8. Get 3 friends to join life groups
9. Bungee jump
10. Visit Africa
11. Be published
12. Fast for 48 hours
13. Enter a food eating contest
14. Read 4 books
15. cook 5 new dishes (new to me)
16. ride my bike once a week (weather permiting)
17. Visit South America
18. Be on TV
19. Go ice-skating
20. Break word record
21. average 200 kids a week in kids church
22. make a dessert from scratch
24. shoot a machine gun
25. go on safari
26. scuba dive
27. go to the top of the carew tower
28. build a piece of furniture
29. drink an espresso
30. have a meaningful job
31. go hunting
32. flip a car (buy and sell)
33. try a new type of meat
34. cliff dive
35. plant a garden and actually grow tomatoes worth eating
36. keep better business records
37. get 50 subscribers on my blog
38. be a roll model
39. get married
40. visit the Indian mounds
42. go ice-skating
43. get $500,000
44. have kids
45. be in a movie
46. get my dad to do something crazy fun
47. get 1,500 feedback on eBay
48. explore the abandoned subway tunnels
49 buy a pacman arcade unit
50. open a Roth IRA
1. Make $8,000 in online sales
2. Put railing in my hallway
3. Have a giant party
4. give away $1,000 at one time
5. Be less socially awkward
6. Go on a date
7. Get 12 new people to come to church
8. Get 3 friends to join life groups
9. Bungee jump
10. Visit Africa
11. Be published
12. Fast for 48 hours
13. Enter a food eating contest
14. Read 4 books
15. cook 5 new dishes (new to me)
16. ride my bike once a week (weather permiting)
17. Visit South America
18. Be on TV
19. Go ice-skating
20. Break word record
21. average 200 kids a week in kids church
22. make a dessert from scratch
24. shoot a machine gun
25. go on safari
26. scuba dive
27. go to the top of the carew tower
28. build a piece of furniture
29. drink an espresso
30. have a meaningful job
31. go hunting
32. flip a car (buy and sell)
33. try a new type of meat
34. cliff dive
35. plant a garden and actually grow tomatoes worth eating
36. keep better business records
37. get 50 subscribers on my blog
38. be a roll model
39. get married
40. visit the Indian mounds
42. go ice-skating
43. get $500,000
44. have kids
45. be in a movie
46. get my dad to do something crazy fun
47. get 1,500 feedback on eBay
48. explore the abandoned subway tunnels
49 buy a pacman arcade unit
50. open a Roth IRA
Thursday, January 7, 2010
How Did you Find this Blog
I'm a bit of a statistics nerd. And like all blogger nerds I like to track my blog views and how people found my blog. I came to find that people have searched some, um, interesting things on google to end up here. Here are some of the searches that brought folks to my blog:
white people hats
weeble wobble making
single guys with minivans?
older ladys hitchhikers sexy
i wanna punch this person in my year
guanatur fala ingles
grandma with piercings
evangelical "dan thoms"
dandruff in mustache
cultural differences farting
blogspot my pierced nipples
cultural differences farting
white people hats
weeble wobble making
single guys with minivans?
older ladys hitchhikers sexy
i wanna punch this person in my year
guanatur fala ingles
grandma with piercings
evangelical "dan thoms"
dandruff in mustache
cultural differences farting
blogspot my pierced nipples
cultural differences farting
Bob Can't Remember My Name
Let me introduce you to Bob. I met Bob on Monday in the same place that I meet lots of interesting people, the thrift store. He was looking at some Autobahn magazines in the book section when he looked at me and said the magic words, Antique Road Show. That will get my attention every time. He then proceeded to tell me his entire life story. Bob, or Big Bob as he's commonly known, is in his 60s, he is married and has a son, Little Bob. Bob has a problem though. Bob can't remember stuff. He tries real hard but his brain doesn't work like it used to. You can see in his eyes that he wants to remember. His hands move nervously, his eyes look up and he thinks. And then he apologizes because he just can't remember. In 2005 Bob wrecked his Harley. His head was crushed and his arm was torn off. He was in a coma for a long time. When he woke up they had already reattached his arm and fixed his head but now he can't remember stuff. That's probably why his name is written in marker on all his clothes. His eyes water up as he tells me, "I just can't remember, I try but I can't. This causes arguments with my wife. She's having a hard time with this. I don't like arguing. I can't even remember what it is we are arguing about." He wanted to remember my name and he was going to write it down but, well, he forgot.
Bob told me a lot of interesting things. For instance, he knew the original Barbie and Ken. No, not the dolls, the people that the dolls were named for. He was friends with the Mattel family. Bob used to collect hot wheels. He tells me that few years back he decided to sell off some of his collection and made $108,000 in three hours. He must have spent that money though because on Monday he only had $4 to spend. He bought a small wooden plaque for twenty-five cents and a pack of wooden train coasters for seventy-five. They were for a friend.
I saw Bob again today. He likes the thrift store. Sometimes he just comes and puts puzzles together. I guess it's therapeutic. He is also in a support group for people with serious brain damage. He didn't remember my name. This time he wrote it down. He didn't have any paper but it's on his hand in big blue letters, St Vincent Dan. "Dave?", "No my name is Dan. It's nice to see you again Bob."
Bob told me a lot of interesting things. For instance, he knew the original Barbie and Ken. No, not the dolls, the people that the dolls were named for. He was friends with the Mattel family. Bob used to collect hot wheels. He tells me that few years back he decided to sell off some of his collection and made $108,000 in three hours. He must have spent that money though because on Monday he only had $4 to spend. He bought a small wooden plaque for twenty-five cents and a pack of wooden train coasters for seventy-five. They were for a friend.
I saw Bob again today. He likes the thrift store. Sometimes he just comes and puts puzzles together. I guess it's therapeutic. He is also in a support group for people with serious brain damage. He didn't remember my name. This time he wrote it down. He didn't have any paper but it's on his hand in big blue letters, St Vincent Dan. "Dave?", "No my name is Dan. It's nice to see you again Bob."
Friday, January 1, 2010
The Water Was Cold - Understatement of the Year
"Shocking the circulatory system can produce a warm afterglow and a transcendental state that one literally needs to experience to fully understand."
What better way is there to start of a new year than with a quick swim? The sun was out and the air temperature was a brisk 20 degrees but with the winds it felt like 12. The water was a bit warmer measuring around 35 with a little ice around the beaches edge. Ah, the Polar Bear Plunge. Last year I missed it but this year I dived right in. After all, it was on my list of things to do. Now, I don't normally scream, I'm generally a rather quite guy. However, when I came up out of that water I let out a hearty scream, "ahhhhhhhhhh." Mind you, the average swimming pool temperature is around 81 degrees so to say that the water was cold would be quite the understatement. I must admit though, it was invigorating. When you come out of that water your heart rate speeds way up and your body goes into a temporary shock. My entire body felt instantly numb. Strangely, as I started to dry off, I didn't feel cold anymore. It was almost as if my body believed, even if for just a moment, that wet swimming trunks and no shirt were proper winter attire. I must say, doing the Polar Bear Plunge is a crazy thing to do and I have some very crazy friends. I give swimming in the freezing waters of Indiana a big two thumbs up.
CLICK HERE FOR The Chanel 5 News Story
Wednesday, December 30, 2009
Don't Be a Daytime Television Man Whore
So I'm off work today. I had some vacation days to kill so here I am. I spent most of the day buying and selling online but I kept the tv on in the background. One of those daytime talk shows came on and I didn't change it. It had just started and they were talking about some guy who created 4 babies with 4 different women in the same year. I don't think my reaction was typical because as soon as they said this I felt an overwhelming feeling of sorrow. It hit me so suddenly and so hard that I was a bit surprised. I muted the tv and choked back the tears. I felt so terrible for those poor children. Here their moms were acting like two bit sluts with this man whore and their kids were the ones who would pay the price. These kids will all grow up with out dads because their so called parents had the self discipline of dogs in heat. This isn't entertainment this is a tragedy. That show should have ended like another popular daytime television show. In the words of Bob Barker "Don't forget to get your dogs spayed and neutered."
Sunday, December 27, 2009
A Conversation about God
By happenstance I recently was reacquainted with a friend from high school on facebook. We both graduated from Central Baptist, a small private school. This is an interesting conversation for any of you who have ever questioned the existence of Jesus or of God himself. This is a long conversation but it's worth reading if you have questions about the historical Jesus or what to say when asked these questions. I don't have all the answers but I do my best. Here is the conversation that we had. It's not a private conversation being that it is posted on my facebook wall so am just re-posting it here.
Friend: wow i would've thought a smart guy like you would've seen the man behind the curtain by now...
Me: I have. Mark 15:38
(Mark 15:38 The curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom.)
Friend: ha ha humorous remark but an unfortunate resistance to reality.
Me: You are correct about one thing, I am a smart guy, ha ha. I also believe that most of religion (but not all) is indeed a ruse of sorts. Some do it for power, others money, but a lot are just misled. I would think that even you would agree that to discount all possibility of a higher power would also be an unfortunate resistance to reality. After all, universal statements can neither be proved nor disproved and the human mind is much to small to explain 99.9% of what exists. I believe that God is bigger than what I imagine him to be. If he is real than he has to be. If I were to argue for my beliefs, I would say that it is not based purely on history, science, and my small minds sense of logic but also upon my personal experience.
Friend: great retort my long lost friend. i shall retire briefly to compose my response.
Friend: certainly religion is a ruse in most cases, little more than an overgrown example of the ills of the traveling quack physician of centuries past. and certainly my knowledge and reason are lacking when faced with the all encompassing questions of the universe. while it seems fair to say that whatever started this ball o' rock a' spinning will never be answered in full detail while we yet breathe. never the less it also seems clear that there are prospective answers that are, how do i put this delicately, less than likely to be correct. one would have to agree that information coming from the time-frame in which most religions were started is highly suspect at best. but personally i believe that our parents hitched our sails to the most absurd of the lot. certainly the big three who start with abraham are similar enough to detest but the tale of christ is that of johnny applesseed or paul bunyan to me. or worse yet because the hero is not someone i could ever exalt and the evil to which he was sent to protect against was mild in comparison to the evil from whence he is said to have come.
Me: Well, I guess if I can get you to agree to be agnostic rather than atheist that's better than nothing. In an interesting side note, my father was an atheist for years before coming to Christ. He was neither convinced nor contrived into doing so. It didn't even happen at a church or with a street corner preacher. It came from personal experience in his car. Do you deny the existence of Jesus, the divinity of Jesus of or both? From a historic aspect the existence of Jesus is pretty well documented as far as 2,000 year old historical figures go.
Friend: yeah no doubt there was a man named jesus who did some crazy things and spoke some new concepts into an old world, but his divinity will never be anything but a joke to me. paul bunyan and johnny appleseed were real people too, but with time they became greater in stature and capability than any rational human being would believe, and yet for some reason greater attributes from a time further back are accepted and wars are started for the belief. to me this is the greatest absurdity of all time. i mean these people were stoning anyone who said the earth was round despite seeing the sun and moon "hanging" in the sky.
Me: Human nature, being what it is, will take anything, good or evil, and use it for self-enrichment. Rather that be the name of Jesus or saving the earth from pollution, anything is game. The difference between the examples you gave and Jesus is Jesus was written about in bigger than life terms by multiple writers within a relatively short period after his works were said to have been performed. They were written about not only by followers but also by Jewish and pagan historians. Not only was Jesus talked about as being perfect in the Gospels, it's writers showed themselves in an often less than flattering light. If the gospels were nothing more than a well written stories, why did the writers not make them selves also look better. What was the point. It is true though that proving the divinity of Christ is all but a futile argument.
Friend: i must have missed something there, who are these historians outside christianity that wrote about him? i have no doubt that an easily deceived writer may have believed what he wrote, just as i can see it in daily life as americans are easily deceived and fervently defend something to which they have no evidence. and if i may make so bold, the point was then as it is now and has ever been and likely will ever be, the almighty one: Gold.
Me: The most important one would be the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus. Some other ancient writers that talk about Jesus would be Cornelius Tacitus, Suetonius, Thallus, Pliny the Younger, and Lucian. The Jewish Talmud also talks about Jesus. Some are positive, some are negative but all reinforce the existence of Jesus as a historical figure. It's been a while since I've read any of them but I'm sure you could google what each one says.
Friend: i have now looked again upon that which i once read and again expected. in this list of writers there is no certainty gained, the Josephus text is widely considered fraudulent, tacitus and Pliny spoke only of the persecution of christians. lucian was born long after the fact and was considered a martyr as he was a christian. unless you are ... See Morereferring to a different lucian. and the seutonius remark is less than vague and fleeting in length. im not saying there wasn't a historical jesus, but none of these are good examples that there may have been. you should reread those i think,
Me: Pliny spoke of the persecution of Christians in the 1st century. Lucian was about 100 years after the fact but from what I read he was a pagan. I don't find the Seutonius remarks to be all that vague but I guess to each their own. As for Josephus, only the first reference to Jesus is debated, the second shorter reference which reads "the brother of... See More Jesus, who was called Christ."" is generally agreed to be untampered with. Of course there is also Mara Bar-Serapion, and The Babylonian Talmud. Also many of the places and characters in the New Testament have been confirmed accurate through archeology. I think you will find that most classical historians agree that Jesus did exist but like I said his divinity is unprovable.
Friend: yeah most of the references made were about the knowledge of an uprising and a persecution of its followers. again i say, undoubtedly, there was a man named jesus, but his capabilities and attributes are grossly exaggerated. just as there was likely a man named moses, and a man named muhammed but their true meaning is like to that of Martin Luther... See More King jr, great men with great deeds but not gods not saviors.
furthermore, even were the tale true, and the god of the old testament was truly the one god, still i would not bow for to me he is not worthy of praise in any manner. but i sleep well none the less, because there isn't even an inkling of doubt in me that this might be the one true way. why should god need money, all knowing, all powerful but he cant manage a bank account for some reason? why would jealousy be a sin but actively evidenced by god? there are not only too many questions with too few answers, the available answers are down right unfathomably offensive.
Me: This all leads to one key question. What is good, what is evil? Is there such a thing or is it all relative. Is man somehow born with a sense of right and wrong and if so why and how? Are there absolutes when morality is concerned and if so then why? What is your opinion on this seeing that you already know where I stand.
Friend: oh that's a bundle, gonna take a few at least.
Friend: well i certainly don't believe that there is an inherent notion of good and evil in us, where it is gained and how are matters for debate I'm sure. but i tend to lean on the nurture side of the argument. as for absolutes in morality, its tough to say i would say that situational ethics is a more viable choice. while it seems like it might be easy to think of an example of something that's always wrong, i don't know that that is enough. i don't claim any religion, but i would say that taoism lines up most closely to what i believe. i think perhaps if you read up on tao you will understand my perspective better. but i don't believe in the duality of good and evil or god and the devil.
Friend: wow i would've thought a smart guy like you would've seen the man behind the curtain by now...
Me: I have. Mark 15:38
(Mark 15:38 The curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom.)
Friend: ha ha humorous remark but an unfortunate resistance to reality.
Me: You are correct about one thing, I am a smart guy, ha ha. I also believe that most of religion (but not all) is indeed a ruse of sorts. Some do it for power, others money, but a lot are just misled. I would think that even you would agree that to discount all possibility of a higher power would also be an unfortunate resistance to reality. After all, universal statements can neither be proved nor disproved and the human mind is much to small to explain 99.9% of what exists. I believe that God is bigger than what I imagine him to be. If he is real than he has to be. If I were to argue for my beliefs, I would say that it is not based purely on history, science, and my small minds sense of logic but also upon my personal experience.
Friend: great retort my long lost friend. i shall retire briefly to compose my response.
Friend: certainly religion is a ruse in most cases, little more than an overgrown example of the ills of the traveling quack physician of centuries past. and certainly my knowledge and reason are lacking when faced with the all encompassing questions of the universe. while it seems fair to say that whatever started this ball o' rock a' spinning will never be answered in full detail while we yet breathe. never the less it also seems clear that there are prospective answers that are, how do i put this delicately, less than likely to be correct. one would have to agree that information coming from the time-frame in which most religions were started is highly suspect at best. but personally i believe that our parents hitched our sails to the most absurd of the lot. certainly the big three who start with abraham are similar enough to detest but the tale of christ is that of johnny applesseed or paul bunyan to me. or worse yet because the hero is not someone i could ever exalt and the evil to which he was sent to protect against was mild in comparison to the evil from whence he is said to have come.
Me: Well, I guess if I can get you to agree to be agnostic rather than atheist that's better than nothing. In an interesting side note, my father was an atheist for years before coming to Christ. He was neither convinced nor contrived into doing so. It didn't even happen at a church or with a street corner preacher. It came from personal experience in his car. Do you deny the existence of Jesus, the divinity of Jesus of or both? From a historic aspect the existence of Jesus is pretty well documented as far as 2,000 year old historical figures go.
Friend: yeah no doubt there was a man named jesus who did some crazy things and spoke some new concepts into an old world, but his divinity will never be anything but a joke to me. paul bunyan and johnny appleseed were real people too, but with time they became greater in stature and capability than any rational human being would believe, and yet for some reason greater attributes from a time further back are accepted and wars are started for the belief. to me this is the greatest absurdity of all time. i mean these people were stoning anyone who said the earth was round despite seeing the sun and moon "hanging" in the sky.
Me: Human nature, being what it is, will take anything, good or evil, and use it for self-enrichment. Rather that be the name of Jesus or saving the earth from pollution, anything is game. The difference between the examples you gave and Jesus is Jesus was written about in bigger than life terms by multiple writers within a relatively short period after his works were said to have been performed. They were written about not only by followers but also by Jewish and pagan historians. Not only was Jesus talked about as being perfect in the Gospels, it's writers showed themselves in an often less than flattering light. If the gospels were nothing more than a well written stories, why did the writers not make them selves also look better. What was the point. It is true though that proving the divinity of Christ is all but a futile argument.
Friend: i must have missed something there, who are these historians outside christianity that wrote about him? i have no doubt that an easily deceived writer may have believed what he wrote, just as i can see it in daily life as americans are easily deceived and fervently defend something to which they have no evidence. and if i may make so bold, the point was then as it is now and has ever been and likely will ever be, the almighty one: Gold.
Me: The most important one would be the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus. Some other ancient writers that talk about Jesus would be Cornelius Tacitus, Suetonius, Thallus, Pliny the Younger, and Lucian. The Jewish Talmud also talks about Jesus. Some are positive, some are negative but all reinforce the existence of Jesus as a historical figure. It's been a while since I've read any of them but I'm sure you could google what each one says.
Friend: i have now looked again upon that which i once read and again expected. in this list of writers there is no certainty gained, the Josephus text is widely considered fraudulent, tacitus and Pliny spoke only of the persecution of christians. lucian was born long after the fact and was considered a martyr as he was a christian. unless you are ... See Morereferring to a different lucian. and the seutonius remark is less than vague and fleeting in length. im not saying there wasn't a historical jesus, but none of these are good examples that there may have been. you should reread those i think,
Me: Pliny spoke of the persecution of Christians in the 1st century. Lucian was about 100 years after the fact but from what I read he was a pagan. I don't find the Seutonius remarks to be all that vague but I guess to each their own. As for Josephus, only the first reference to Jesus is debated, the second shorter reference which reads "the brother of... See More Jesus, who was called Christ."" is generally agreed to be untampered with. Of course there is also Mara Bar-Serapion, and The Babylonian Talmud. Also many of the places and characters in the New Testament have been confirmed accurate through archeology. I think you will find that most classical historians agree that Jesus did exist but like I said his divinity is unprovable.
Friend: yeah most of the references made were about the knowledge of an uprising and a persecution of its followers. again i say, undoubtedly, there was a man named jesus, but his capabilities and attributes are grossly exaggerated. just as there was likely a man named moses, and a man named muhammed but their true meaning is like to that of Martin Luther... See More King jr, great men with great deeds but not gods not saviors.
furthermore, even were the tale true, and the god of the old testament was truly the one god, still i would not bow for to me he is not worthy of praise in any manner. but i sleep well none the less, because there isn't even an inkling of doubt in me that this might be the one true way. why should god need money, all knowing, all powerful but he cant manage a bank account for some reason? why would jealousy be a sin but actively evidenced by god? there are not only too many questions with too few answers, the available answers are down right unfathomably offensive.
Me: This all leads to one key question. What is good, what is evil? Is there such a thing or is it all relative. Is man somehow born with a sense of right and wrong and if so why and how? Are there absolutes when morality is concerned and if so then why? What is your opinion on this seeing that you already know where I stand.
Friend: oh that's a bundle, gonna take a few at least.
Friend: well i certainly don't believe that there is an inherent notion of good and evil in us, where it is gained and how are matters for debate I'm sure. but i tend to lean on the nurture side of the argument. as for absolutes in morality, its tough to say i would say that situational ethics is a more viable choice. while it seems like it might be easy to think of an example of something that's always wrong, i don't know that that is enough. i don't claim any religion, but i would say that taoism lines up most closely to what i believe. i think perhaps if you read up on tao you will understand my perspective better. but i don't believe in the duality of good and evil or god and the devil.
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